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Eh CR let's be clear about this, I ain't making excuses for anyone and I would prefer if you could tone down that language. I was merely stating that there is a long lead time with the refurb programmes for any of the Mark 3 stock that have been refurbished in the UK and cited W & S as an example.

I would absolutely agree with you that the Mark 3 coaches are undoubtedly the best designed coaches that we have seen and which far outdo the Mark 4 stock in terms of comfort and ride quality. I would certainly think that if IE had a chance to turn back time, they would have gone for a full Mark 3 refurb programme with push/pull abilities rather than buying the Mark 4 stock. But we are where we are now and the clock isn't going to turn back.

At this stage there harsh economics at play, and I would suggest that at the very least the day-to-day costs of operation of 22K railcars on all of the other routes is less than Mark 3 loco hauled stock with the reduction in on-board staff (no guard), station staff (no shunters), faster turnarounds possible (no shunting required) and fewer maintenance facilities required (no longer separate coaching and locos - all now in one location).

I personally think that the withdrawal of all of the Mark 3 stock is still a mistake. I would prefer to see some of the stock refurbished for an hourly service on the Belfast route (and as standby) and to have on standby for Dublin/Cork rather than using 22K stock which could be deployed elsewhere. Realistically at this stage that's all the Mark 3 stock would be useful for. The 22K stock is more than adequate for the other routes - provided the timetable is adjusted to reflect the shorter trains (although with these recessionary times this is less of an issue).

Yes GM134 - but with the new timetable those ECS moves will become a thing of the past so that really is a red herring.