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medtrain |
irish rail mk3 and mk4 carraiges test train june 2009 |
Lead | |
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4 shots i took today 17 june at the old clondalkin station site of the mk3/4 test train hauled by 234 at 18.35
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ttc0169 |
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Excellent and unusual catch there medtrain-well done-I didn't think that combination was possible-even for a test train.
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Roundymac |
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What were they testing and for what reason?
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thewanderersfotopic |
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Some more shots of todays unusual formation as part of the Ride Comfort improvements to the MKIV fleet.
http://thewanderersirishrailphotos.fotopic.net/p59011400.html
"Out of the chair."
Last Edited By: thewanderersfotopic
26/06/09 18:31:11.
Edited 1 times.
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Connaught Ranger |
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Can anybody else see the odd side to the above trials....
The mark111 seems to be the bench mark for ride comfort levels but yet are in the process of being withdrawn from Iarnrod Eireann operations. A clear indication that the Mark3 is a better quality carriage.... Where is the sense lads???? |
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121x2 |
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Agree with ye Connaught Ranger, if Irish rail think that the mk3s are that bad why didnt they send them off for refurbishment and get a good few years more out
of them like what happened to the HSTs in the Uk which are very comfortable and are a pleasure to travel in. The HSTs are still on the top links out of
Paddington to Cardiff and Penzance and from Kings Cross to Scotland day in day out and they are older than the mk3s. Just shows the sense in irish rail were
the mk3s are slowly wearing away in yards across the country.
121x2 |
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irishtrains2730 |
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good old irish rail.makes a good photo that.
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UKTrainSpotter |
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Anybody know where this train worked from and to, and whether any similar "mixed" workings are planned?
Recession......what recession? Pass me my cigars and brandy there like a nice chap! |
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Railcargricer1 |
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Connaught Ranger wrote:Cravens and MK2s (particularly the air Braked MK2a/b/c fleet) were all very smooth on the rails but in fairness to the MK3s no good having a decent ride quality if the doors are long past their best, air conditioning obsolete, body corrosion attacking the body from the inside out, all these problems make a quality refurbishment an extremely expensive and long drawn out process. Ask the good people at Wrexham and Shropshire how easy and fast it is to throw in a few MK3s for refurbishment and get them back....actually massive problems were encountered and they still haven't been delivered. Refurbishment in the form of rebuilding is barely cheaper than procuring new stock when you will end up replacing it in 10 yrs or so versus the 30 or so yrs of new build. The LHB Dart rebuild dragged on massively over the planned completion date and while the ambiance is that of a new train personally from observations their reliability is pathetic since their return in comparison to the new Tokyu sets. That said their operating costs are on par with the Tokyu sets so a case was made to retain them. MK3s would require a much more complex rebuild to incorporate a whole new Air Con System, new interior panelling, retention tanks, push pull equipment, driving trailers. And then of course what do you pull them with? "reliable" 201s? If only we'd bought HST sets in 1976s instead of the 071s...........
Last Edited By: Railcargricer1
23/06/09 14:44:40.
Edited 1 times.
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Platform10 |
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It is actually hard to credit how long the refurbs take.
The Wrexham & Shropshire launched their services in April 2008, and the coaches were to be available a few months later. Over one year on and they are still in the works (except for the DVTs). The link below shows how they were in March. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixrYwMkTHII&feature=channel_page |
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Connaught Ranger |
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All I hear is pro regieme excuses,
The trials are taking place due to problems with relatively new Mark4 stock but the topic has turned into why the Mark3 are no longer viable, mouthing about a Wrexham & Shropshire company that seems to have bitten off more than it can chew... Nothing but negative attitudes regarding loco hauled services due to a management that has no experience but through railcars is the reason for the demise of otherwise decent rolling stock! The Mark4 is on trial not the Mark3... |
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Redstarcastles |
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The Mark 3 has been on trial since 1984. Door failures were always a big problem. The doors didn't fail on the Cravens.
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Platform10 |
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Eh CR let's be clear about this, I ain't making excuses for anyone and I would prefer if you could tone down that language. I was merely stating that
there is a long lead time with the refurb programmes for any of the Mark 3 stock that have been refurbished in the UK and cited W & S as an example.
I would absolutely agree with you that the Mark 3 coaches are undoubtedly the best designed coaches that we have seen and which far outdo the Mark 4 stock in terms of comfort and ride quality. I would certainly think that if IE had a chance to turn back time, they would have gone for a full Mark 3 refurb programme with push/pull abilities rather than buying the Mark 4 stock. But we are where we are now and the clock isn't going to turn back. At this stage there harsh economics at play, and I would suggest that at the very least the day-to-day costs of operation of 22K railcars on all of the other routes is less than Mark 3 loco hauled stock with the reduction in on-board staff (no guard), station staff (no shunters), faster turnarounds possible (no shunting required) and fewer maintenance facilities required (no longer separate coaching and locos - all now in one location). I personally think that the withdrawal of all of the Mark 3 stock is still a mistake. I would prefer to see some of the stock refurbished for an hourly service on the Belfast route (and as standby) and to have on standby for Dublin/Cork rather than using 22K stock which could be deployed elsewhere. Realistically at this stage that's all the Mark 3 stock would be useful for. The 22K stock is more than adequate for the other routes - provided the timetable is adjusted to reflect the shorter trains (although with these recessionary times this is less of an issue). |
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Redstarcastles |
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Good summary there Platform10 of the Mark 3 situation. I like them and it will be strange to see them go. As the 22k are a similar standard, then the Mark 3s are numbered. Cost per train is reduced. Fuel consumption must be less if you count that a standard Mark 3 set includes a non revenue earning gen van and a similar restaurant car. And a loco of usually variable quality. Staff costs are less also as is maintenance. Do people out there prefer the Mark 4, the enterprise DDs or the 22k? I am talking here in terms of train quality and comfort. The DD is good, but I think that the 22k is more comfortable. The mark 4 is defnitely in 3rd place.
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notch8 |
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Well the DD is by far the best for comfort and the ride quality is not the worst. Honestly i don't understand how anyone can think a 22 is more comfortable
as the seats are much harder not as soft and comfortable as a DD. I am the exception to most people and I actually like the MK4s but the ride quality is
terrible. I personally am of the opinion that a 22 is a more like a long distance Commuter train not an intercity train. Whether a MK4 and especially a MK3 and
DD feels like an intercity long distance train. Thats just the feel I and i wouldn't fancy a 22 to Cork the thought is unbearable I would nearly prefer to
head down to Busaras and see what they have to offer!!
http://irishrailwaysandbuses.fotopic.net
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GM 134 |
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"Fuel consumption must be less if you count that a standard Mark 3 set includes a non revenue earning gen van and a similar restaurant car."And what about the engine under each "coach" of a railcar.........not to mention all the ECS moves they make daily between Portlaoise and Heuston and vice versa, I can't think there are much savings at present between a railcar and a loco hauled train!! "Staff costs are less also as is maintenance."I agree that staff have been reduced as there is no need for a guard on railcars, however I would doubt that maintence costs are reduced - remember that the 22k's have an engine under every coach - that must cost a good deal more to repair/maintain than a standard carrage where basically on a standard coach there the electrics/air-con/brakes and wheel sets and bogies to worry about, you have that to deal with on a railcar - as well as an engine!! In my opinion weather any great savings have been made with the 22k's is debatable - on one hand you don't have the run round/shunt to do any more, nor do you have to have as many staff as before (guards, shunters etc) however, where one could say savings have been made here it can be looked at that with the savings that have been saved there have been used up for the more engines to maintain, ECS moves, more wear and tear on the track, more drivers (for more services) etc. As regards ride quality the real test for the 22k's will be in 10/15 years time what they will be like - been working very hard from day 1 is bound to take it's toll sooner or later. Regards, GM 134 |
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Platform10 |
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Yes GM134 - but with the new timetable those ECS moves will become a thing of the past so that really is a red herring.
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GM 134 |
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Yes I agree Platform 10 that once the new Timetable is introduced then (hopefully!) all the ECS moves will all be a thing of the past, but I still remain
un-convinced on how much has been saved on the operation of the 22ks over loco hauled stock. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the main reasons
of getting the 22k's was to improve on costs involved in running traditional loco hauled stock. Thinking about it with the points I listed in my last
message I personally can't really see much difference in costs between Unit V.S Loco hauled stock.
Regards, GM 134 |
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219RiverTolka |
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I don't know how true this is but I've heard from someone within IE that the fuel consumption on the 22s is higher than the 201s. Sounds a bit odd to
me.
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notch8 |
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The one thing i'd say is that having a guard may be worth the money. For example, I was on a train the other day coming from Sligo and some bloke started
playing music out loud after having a few drinks. A older woman walked up and asked him to turn it down. Firstly, there was no checker or anybody apart from
the driver to go and try and sort the problem out. Secondly, most guards walk through the train and keep an eye out for that sort of stuff. Anyway the man
started getting aggressive but only verbally and did not do any thing else. But if something was to happen to the woman, who was there to help. I have seen
guards numerous times tell people to turn music down and take feet off the seats and so on. Checkers not so much. Anyway in a time of recession we should be
trying to create jobs not reduce them .......
http://irishrailwaysandbuses.fotopic.net
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ttc0169 |
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You should come to Mayo Notch 8 as the checkers there have a zero tolerence on that sort of behaviour-"Stand clear of the doors"and "keep behind
the yellow line"comes to mind and most have the numbers of the local Garda stations en route for a speedy responce-a few members of this board having
witnessed this rule being enforced on a few occasions...!!!
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